Asheville Homes and LAND!- The Keep In Touch Blog

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OOOO-Yuckkkk. Contamination. Or CAN sustainable, green development happen here? Field Trip.

 

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REALTORS'®Due Diligence- Check out THIS list. asheville, N.C. conservation development?

  • Leaking Underground Storage Tanks   (LUSTs)                           
  • Landfills
  • Superfund Sites
  • Water Quality Assurance Revolving Priority Fund Sites
  • EPA Proposed Superfund Sites (CERCLIS)
  • Hazardous Waste Sites
  • Hazardous Waste

OOOO-YUCK! Who wants to talk about all this gookie-stuff?

 Raise your hands.Do I see one-hand? Do I see a few hands? Show me a few hands. Let me tell you a true story. Then maybe those hands will show up.

 

 Recently, we were on the hunt for land for a sustainable, green development for one of our clients. We were excited to hear about 60+ acres that overlooks the gorgeous French Broad River and guards the view from lofty heights where there are innumerable building sites just perfect for a green-built /conservation subdivision. It was not on the market. A local owner wanted to preserve it. We were anticipating a celebration. But we are a careful bunch. We like to review a site thoughtfully and personally. So, on a mild and breezy day, our ECO Team at the brokerage ventured out to see what could have been some of the most beautiful land for sale in the Greater Asheville, North Carolina area. 

ahseville, NC conservation development?

 

 

Isn't it just spectacular? Wouldn't you just love to build your dream home here?

Maybe not. Reasons why?

 1) Expanding disclosure standards and legislation for sellers of residential property requiring stepped-up due diligence concerning environmental issues and contamination..

2) At least one of the items from the above contamination list affect this property and could pose a serious challenge for all parties during due diligence.  

Want to know which? Raise your hands, and I'll tell y'all..PS There's a hint right there in the story.

Let me know what you think.

UPDATE: 8/25...

 scroll down the comments to the second photo for the answer   and  Let's open this up further discussion ...

HERE is a list of potential "material facts" about  which real estate professionals should learn  more...

  1. brownfields...when and how do we reclaim them?

  2. water table and leaking toxic substances

  3. a certain aroma...when does it become a material fact

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Comments

Everyone with your hands up...There's a hint right there in the story...Makes you think about the issue of environmental knowledge for real estate professionals, eh?
Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
Manufacturing companies complain about the tough standards but there is nothing more disappointing the polluted waterways.  So... I'm lazy today - Raising my hand instead of looking for hints!
Posted by No Longer Active (Real Estate) about 11 years ago

Dan~ Hint-hint..."breezy" as in use your nose =)

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
(2)
Posted by Ann Heitland, Retired from Flagstaff Real Estate Sales (Retired from RE/MAX Peak Properties) about 11 years ago

Ann~

Good eye! Or should I say "nose" LOL..Bigger issue here is due diligence. Is this an item for consideration in Flagstaff?

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
Hazardous Waste into the water...stink?  From where? Some kind of plant down/up river?
Posted by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman, (RA) AHWD CRS ePRO OAHU HAWAII REAL ESTATE (Liberty Homes) about 11 years ago
Another interesting one to keep us on our toes.  :)  How come you get all of the interesting sales?  Are we supposed to guess and possibly ruin the surprise?   There are a couple of communities here where on a breezy day it might make you question whether or not you would want to buy there.  My guess is one of two things. 
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Hi janeAnn! Love the new photo! Landfills huh?

Posted by Lysa Napolitano about 11 years ago
Landfills. Such a shame. Great post! There are a couple of nice areas here that have a less than welcome smell.
Posted by delete account about 11 years ago

Sally~ 

You are a very good guesser...but y'all are just gonna' have to wait until I get 20  more guesses..or until midnight tonight...whichever comes first =)

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Stephanie~

aha...like Sally, YOU also  are a very good guesser...but y'all are just gonna' have to wait until I get 20  more guesses..or until midnight tonight...whichever comes first =)

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Lysa`

Smart cookie! But maybe it is something else...answer soon to be revealed...

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
Talk around the Cary area of underground oil tanks that once heated the homes that have been banded are polluting our drinking water now a days.
Posted by Susan Trombley, Broker/Realtor, Raleigh, Cary, Wake Forest, Youngs (Trombley Real Estate) about 11 years ago
From the photos I wouldn't say noise contamination is a factor...
Posted by Jeff R. Geoghan, REALTOR, Marketing Manager (Coldwell Banker Residential Brokerage) about 11 years ago
Your pictures are always so beautiful! But I guess this one could be labeled "Appearances can be deceiving." So I don't have an answer but it involves air pollution?
Posted by Dena Stevens, Putting The Real Into Realtor Since 2004 (Rocky Mountain Realty ) about 11 years ago
Yes, it is very beautiful...  I hope it is not all of the above.  Please tell us :-)
Posted by about 11 years ago

Susan~ 

For sure LUSTs are a "biggie" for real estate professionals when it comes to due diligence. One of my brokers listed a home not long ago and found the original filling tap for an underground storage tank in an addition/remodel part of the-home behind a couch! You really have to have your eyes open, eh?

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Jeff~

Good-eye. I bet that hardly anyone sees what you have seen in the photo. More on this later.

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
It must be either a pulp mill or the county municipal landfill or perhaps a hog farm? I say it`s the dump.
Posted by John Thomas about 11 years ago

Dena~ 

Good call...definitely pollution of some kind...nose and ears will tell the tale...check back in an hour or so for the answer =) and thanks for the nod on my photos...these happen to have been taken by our photographer at the firm who goes with us on our site evaluations......

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

JT~

You were there... =)

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
After seeing your response to Jeff comment....is that really what it looks like on both sides of the river?  I didn't see that at first, my attention was drawn to the mountains.  :) 
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Albert~ 

Let's get a few more comments and then I'll tell y'all what you saw/didn't see in the photo...there are now tow or three good hints...i can tel you THAT

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
JaneAnne - out of curiosity -- how close would the nearest coal burning plant be to your site?
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago
Would it be like in the next state???
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago
Breezy eh...well I'll guess Landfill too...but then again it could be leaky storage tanks!
Posted by Joan Mirantz, Realtor, GRI, CBR, SRES - Concord New Hampshire (Homequest Real Estate) about 11 years ago

Mary~ 

I will have to ask the others who did the site evaluation with me...but you are definitely ON to something!!! Good sleuthing...

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
I love to research and can't wait to hear the answer!
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

Mary~

No...triple NO and boo-hoo..NO! and not only that...a new coal-fired plant may be in the works...unless we who live here can remedy our use of energy during-peak times...or my son's invention/solution can be applied...

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
janeAnne, just curious what am I seeing at the bottom of the picture near the river? Train tracks or roads?
Posted by Dena Stevens, Putting The Real Into Realtor Since 2004 (Rocky Mountain Realty ) about 11 years ago

JaneAnne - sounds like your son is as bright as you. I would love to hear about his invention. Not only that but how can they be proposing a coal-fired plant when you are already suffering from the pollution from neighboring states that are causing asthma, breathing problems in what should be one of the cleanest "AIR"eas of the US? -- not the manufacturing plants we are accustomed to in the "rust belt."

That is just about as ludicrous as the "tax" applied to the "energy tax credit" builders get in Michigan.

Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago
That was the same question I wanted to know but I didn't know if we were supposed to be secretive.  :)  LOL.  it have something to do with where you were standing when the photo was taken on the bottom photo? 
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
Nitrous Oxide????
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

Ah...triple NO -

Nitrates in the water!!! Ammonia!!! Much like BP is dumping into Lake Michigan.

Did I catch that last clue?

Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

Everyone...

Oh MY...I am grinning and giggling...what wonderful sleuths y'all are! I was  going to reveal the challenge with this property...but now...I think ...I have to wait  for a little bit to see what you  come up with next! Mary...isn't nitrous oxide laughing gas?? Is that why I am laughing??

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Everyone...

Oh MY...I am grinning and giggling...what wonderful sleuths y'all are! I was  going to reveal the challenge with this property...but now...I think ...I have to wait  for a little bit to see what you  come up with next! Mary...isn't nitrous oxide laughing gas?? Is that why I am laughing??

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
Oh, I think you are seriously sitting there laughing at all of us. You just like messing with our heads! And I bet you do this again soon.........; )  It's the teacher in you.
Posted by Dena Stevens, Putting The Real Into Realtor Since 2004 (Rocky Mountain Realty ) about 11 years ago

LOL.  That's funny.

my capture is love-in-a-mist

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

I think I'm trying too hard now...but it reminds me of a property I had some clients ALMOST buy.  It was a waterfront property on a small neighborhood pond.  The community was all on septic and afte nosing around I found out that the septic systems (always have to drain somewhere)  drained into the pond.  Yuck.  Needless to say,  they didn't buy on that pond. 

But they did buy here...

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Stephanie! Beautiful property you sold!

JaneAnne - that's funny! and to think I started it! I think you are right! NO is laughing gas! But what is NO3?

What is Nitrate?

Nitrate (NO3-) is a water-soluble molecule made up of nitrogen and oxygen. It is formed when nitrogen from ammonia or other sources combines with oxygenated water. Nitrate is a natural constituent of plants and is found in vegetables at varying levels depending on the amount of fertilizer applied and on other growing conditions. According to the World Health Organization, most adults ingest 20-70 milligrams of nitrate- nitrogen per day with most of this coming from foods like lettuce, celery, beets, and spinach. When foods containing nitrate are eaten as part of a balanced diet the nitrate exposure is not thought to be harmful. (credits: http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/water/dwg/nitrate.htm)

What kind of run off do you have from those roads? Do they salt them in the winter to prevent accidents and make them passable?

But what is the smell? Did I take a wrong turn from the road I was originally on????? You are killing me! 

Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

 

Good guesses everyone...loved this field trip...happy you got to share our site evaluation...and thanks for participating...you all get dark chocolate and a fig newton.

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
Oh, oh, give us another one!
Posted by Dena Stevens, Putting The Real Into Realtor Since 2004 (Rocky Mountain Realty ) about 11 years ago
Excellent post as always! Thanks for taking me on a treasure hunt tonight and helping my learning experience along. You are a wonderful teacher and coach -- a LEEDer for certain!
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

That's too bad about the landfill.  Thanks for the field trip and the Dark Chocolate!

 

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
My guess is Hazardous Waste.  Hope to here the answer soon.  Thanks for the challenge! 
Posted by David L. Britt, MBA (Platinum Realty, LLC) about 11 years ago
JaneAnne - I have nothing to add but this was a fun fieldtrip for a Green newbie - getting Greener everyday. :-)  
Posted by Cyndee Haydon, 727-710-8035 Clearwater, Beach Short Sales Luxury Condos &Homes (Charles Rutenberg Realty) about 11 years ago

I once walked some property that did seem to have a certain aroma...

It turned out to be the natural result of one of nature's own recycling mechanisms.  Seems there had been at least two deer struck by cars on the nearby road.  They must have staggered onto this property to die.   The smell of decaying flesh is unmistakable, but fortunately easy to remove, unlike a neighboring landfill.

Posted by Rich Schiffer, Referral Agent, e-PRO about 11 years ago

My guess is also dumping of hazardous waste in a remote spot where no one would have cared when that was going on.  They like to do that in remote sink holes in Missouri; and they used to get away with it. 

Why does the owner NOT want development, but wants a Preserve.  Less snooping around?

Edited: Yes, I saw that picture of the landfill mountain.  We're seeing more and more of those in the midwest. 

Some hazardous waste is from older projects such as mining.  My husband built a home for a client who had to have a lot of the surface removed (Clean-up funds did it) because of an old copper mine.  There was a great deal of copper contamination.  Even cleaned up, DH had them use copper flashing on the foundation because there was enough natural copper in the area to 'eat' galvanized flashing.  Many times, even though it looks pretty hopeless in the beginning, things can be reclaimed. 

 

Posted by JudyAnn Lorenz, Virtual Marketing Consultant (Bar JD Communications) about 11 years ago
I'm coming in a little late, but my guess would have been a landfill much too close to the property.  Especially if you could smell it on that breezy day.  I didn't see the railroad tracks, but that would be slightly less of a nuisance, IMHO.
Posted by Jim & Maria Hart, Charleston, SC Real Estate (Brand Name Real Estate) about 11 years ago

janeAnne,   This blog was a very educational one to say the least ! I love your style of writing.  I think it's a shame how so many areas put their landfills on the shores of water bodies in the past.  My city and the neighbouring one (where I grew up), both have landfills on the shores of the Bay of Quinte.  They closed them in the 1970s and put topsoil over the mounds of garbage. Then they planted trees and turned them into parks.

In the winter the best toboggan hill here is the the tallest pile of top-soil covered garbage !!!  What it does to the water quality is horrendous...all that leaching going on...

Jo 

Posted by Jo-Anne Smith about 11 years ago
Grand Rapids Michigan has a dump site - The Butterworth Dump Site - that has had cleanup efforts and they are trying to turn it into recreational property. Helmuts On tried for two years to get approval to put a BMX track on the land. The organization received approval from several of the government agencies involved. The issue that failed the proposal was liability. They wanted to transfer the liability for any future cleanup to this non-profit organization. Bye-Bye! NOT a good deal!
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

Ok, what do you all think of this one.  We have what used to be a toxic dump site here in our suburbs.  The materials are known carcinogens.  They tried to localize it years ago so that a community could go in near it.  Within the past 10 years they ended up doing a drainage easement to prevent flooding over a large area and while constructing that they found out that the "toxic plume" was spreading and continues to.   The gov says that it does not have to be disclosed until it is cleaned up.  ????  The Utility Districts water wells are about 100 or so feet below the plume and not affected right now. 

How should that be handled in a real estate transaction in the area. 

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Dena~

Mary~          

Stephanie~

David~

Cyndee~

 

Here's a big Thumbs Up to y'all...thank you for your comments and for "energizing" this BLOG...each in your own special way.

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

janeAnne,

A big thumbs up to you too for energizing the greenies in the rain!

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Rich~

You mentioned "...a certain aroma..."..( non-toxic) and that brings up an interesting point...hog farms, sheep farms, dairy farms...all have a certain aroma...I am wondering how many of you think that this is a "material fact"...???

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Ooh, good question.  Is that fact that there is an aroma a material fact...or is the fact there the farm is there one.  It seems to me that there could be many things that affect surrounding properties of farms.  Although I do not handle too many land properties...We did diclose the fact that a residential home I had listed had a cattle ranch behind it, and another was a donkey farm. 

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

JudyAnn~   you and Stephanie~ and Jo-Anne~ and Mary~

are bringing up more good points! You commented "...Many times, even though it looks pretty hopeless in the beginning, things can be reclaimed. ..."  Mary noted how one effort she knows of is to make a recreational area , Steph~brought up known carcinogens and the water table, and Jo-Anne had a similar concern... 

Let's open this up further discussion ...OK I'm starting a list of potential "material facts" about  which real estate professionals should learn  more...

  1. brownfields...when and how do we reclaim them?
  2. water table and leaking toxic substances
  3. a certain aroma...when does it become a material fact
Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Jim and Maria~ 

Like you, in terms of "nuisance"...I see the sounds from trains passing as subjective

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
I have to admit that I need to learn more about Brownfields...I know very little.  I am glad that I am attending class on this post.  :)  Have to go to the office now, will check back.
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
janeAnne, I'm thoroughly enjoying reading this post and the comments!  What came to mind for me was perhaps some kind of agricultural farming like a hog farm or turkey farm.  Last year, one of my clients almost bought a gorgeous scenic lot.  Fortunately, one more trip with the wind blowing in the right direction revealed through the "sniff test" what our eyes could never have seen.
Posted by Lola Audu, Audu Real Estate~Grand Rapids, MI ~Welcome Home! (Lola Audu~Audu Real Estate~Grand Rapids, MI Real Estate) about 11 years ago

JaneAnne - Lola's post reminded me of the brochure Ottawa County Michigan (my home) created in 2003 in response to all the calls and complaints they were receiving regarding tractors, farmers and smells in our rural area. They actually produced a brochure that you see by visiting this link which included a Scratch and Sniff that smells like, well, MANURE! This brochure made the news around the country!

Being on the lending side, what are "material facts?" I am not familiar with the term although I think I am getting the idea!

Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago
I'm sorry...but LOL!!!  Scratch and Sniff Manure Brochures?  ROFL on that one.  Talk about a marketing technique...
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Stephanie - You bring up an interesting point about the toxic contamination and water. Here is what is happening in Manton Michigan to homes in the area where wells have been contaminated by the landfill. I have a cabin in the area - fortunately we are south and west of where the contamination has moved. People are having a hard time selling their homes in the area and it is many times a question of concern when people are looking for property in the area.

You raise a good question.

Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

...just a side note ...

our real estate  firm specializes in re-development projects. Earlier this year, most of the ECO Team at our firm attended the Brownfields Conference (held here in Asheville) in our continued effort to educate ourselves in a matter that concerns us all... I'll do a post if y'all would like some information on that Conference...

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
JaneAnne - I would love to learn from you. We have many Brownfield areas in Michigan and I am quite dumb about them!
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago

janeAnne,

I always find your posts informative and I would love to hear about the Brownfields Conference.  I have to admit...I took a course that went over all of that but I do not remember any of it.  (you can slap my hand  :)  I meant to review it today so that I could add something to the conversation but I didn't get to it.  I still will review it though so maybe I will understand the one you are going to do a little better.

So, to make a short comment long...YES!  I would love to hear about the conference!!  :)

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Dena~

and everyone else who wants a few more of my "great"  questions ...Stephanie just reminded me of this post...There are a few reliable stumpers there...let me know...

 Steph~ and Mary~ (and anyone interested in Brownfields) be happy to do a post on this and/or checkout a few I've written

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Lola~

 Noses are a good-thing, eh? We have deed restrictions that prevent hog farming in many areas. Last night I saw a piece on URTV (local TV produced by locals) on organic hog farming...small-scale and wondered about neighboring land...I'll be checking that out soon.

 

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Thanks janeAnne,

I read over them....I am going to read over my course again.  It is starting to come back.  Phase 1, Phase 2, etc.  I think I'll do it tomorrow.  Today is the last day of summer vacation.  :)

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

janeAnne,

 

Thank you for your post, it deserves all of this attention, as does the issue of reclaiming brownfields. Personally, this is on of my favorite parts of working in real estate. 

Posted by Gabe Swinney Asheville New Urbanism (Gabe Swinney) about 11 years ago

Ok, I'm going through the historic contamination section now and this is still unclear.  However, this is what I have so far.  Let me know if I'm on the right track.

A phase 1 assessment will show if a phase 2 is recommended.  If the samples taken during a phase 2 show that indeed there is contamination and to what extent...then it is at this point that interested parties can establish options and costs properly cleanup and redevelop the land? 

It is from there that I'm confused.  Some properties are eligible for TBA Funding through EPA.  I'm lost from here on out.

Anyone care to tackle the next part?  Unless of course I'm way off track so far...then anyone want to chime in??? 

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
There was a landfill!!!!! Such a shame. :(
Posted by delete account about 11 years ago

Steph~

Appreciate that you noticed and went after the information on Brownfields. This is a subject that the ECO team at our firm finds of great interest. We all attended the Brownfields Conference here in Asheville this year, and keep a close watch on the "news" when it comes to this subject. 

Your research turned up good information for REALTORS (an our clients),,,here's the challenge...can you identify such properties in your area? let me know!

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Pamela~

I used to muse over large messes on  or by rivers......what would inspire a company/community to so this?...convenience?

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
JaneAnne, I love your list.  I want to add one for the Lake Norman Area: water; source, quantity, quality, depth of aquifers.  Water shortages are no fun:(
Posted by Diane Aurit, Lake Norman Real Estate (LKN Realty, LLC) about 11 years ago
janeAnne,  I will nose around and see what I can find.  :)
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Everyone...

 

Here's a SUMMARY  and a thank you. I appreciate how this conversation is unfolding... We began by exploring

 REALTORS'®Due Diligence in terms of- . asheville, N.C. conservation development?

  • Leaking Underground Storage Tanks   (LUSTs)                           
  • Landfills
  • Superfund Sites
  • Water Quality Assurance Revolving Priority Fund Sites
  • EPA Proposed Superfund Sites (CERCLIS)
  • Hazardous Waste Sites
  • Hazardous Waste

 

 

 

 

 

that opened up comments/commentaries on everything from air pollution and sink holes to Brownfields.

So that's where this conversation is focused now...Brownfields...

 Just above, Stephanie shared her research saying that, "

A phase 1 assessment will show if a phase 2 is recommended.  If the samples taken during a phase 2 show that indeed there is contamination and to what extent.."...and asked..."is at this point that interested parties can establish options and costs properly cleanup and redevelop the land?" I asked one-of my resources about that...

ANSWER: You have the phase assessments right. Phase 2 does provide insight to the potential remediation necessary and costs. However, there would probably be more testing in developing the ultimate remediation plan. Some people refer to these as phases 3 and 4.

For EPA's funding role. it gets a little more sticky (political).

EPA will not fund a private cleanup directly to developer. They might fund thru a grant to a municipality that has an interest in the project. NOW some States will fund private cleanups directly if there is a strong public interest component. There are also tax credits that flow directly to a developer for cleaning prequalified properties. (for example: South Carolina has them. North Carolina doesn't.)

Most of the Brownfield Developers, my resource tells me, prefer the upside coming from the ultimate value of the redevelopment.

 

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Thank you janeAnne for clarifying that for us.  Now, even if the EPA does not fund it, do they somehow oversee the process?  And I need to try and find a property in my neck of the woods for this.

So...is contamination in the water table next?  Can't wait!!

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
I will keep coming back to learn more..you guys are just so full of knowledge....great for me to pick up on. Thanks!  I still think it's a bunch of stuff in a landfill from some kind of plant that produces harzardous stuff. (did I miss something in the comments?) And the public interest would be a strong "part of" getting something done for the cleanup.
Posted by Celeste "SALLY" Cheeseman, (RA) AHWD CRS ePRO OAHU HAWAII REAL ESTATE (Liberty Homes) about 11 years ago
The train track sounds positive.  Just scoop that nasty hazardous waste up, train it on up North and dump it on GW Bush's front yard.  I've got a shovel! 
Posted by Evan Little, Eco, Live/Work, Sales and Management (Surterre Properties) about 11 years ago

"a certain aroma...when does it become a material fact" 

I would think it would have to do with what the aroma is.  What does everyone else think?

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
Excellent janeAnne,  most of those sites are available on my profile
Posted by Anonymous about 11 years ago
Oops, my comment above
Posted by Gary Smith about 11 years ago

This is a good compilation, thank you. As for brownfields, we have quite a few, this is an industrial area after all. Cleveland has taken charge of a few spots and reclaimed them for future, safe commercial development.

I know there was a large area along one of the rivers in Pittsburgh that was toxic and yet one of the best locations; would have been perfect for housing. They reclaimed the entire area and now it's a thriving community. Unfortunately it's all rather costly isn't it. Have a great vacation, Jane Anne!

Posted by Carole Cohen, Realtor, ePRO (Howard Hanna Cleveland City Office) about 11 years ago

...Stephanie asked...

"...even if the EPA does not fund it, do they somehow oversee the process?..."THAT is a might fine question. It's been a couple days since I checked in. I am wondering if you have found out the answer to this question...

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

...a Question...

how many of y'all are dealing with meth labs as part of your due diligence?

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
CERTIFICATION PROGRAM
ECO - Environmental Consultant

Here in North Carolina we have a Certification Program for environmentally conscious REALTORS®. It  allows REALTORS® to obtain an ECO Certification. ECO stands for Environmental Consultant. REALTORS® who obtain the ECO certificationundergo a significant training program (36 classroom/site evaluation/in-the-field training) in order to better prepare  to consult with and refer to experts and share information with their clients on environmental issues affecting their real estate transactions. Next month the core courses are being offered.

Resources for Healthy Choices: Environmental Issues in Real Estate
Oct. 10, 2007. 8:30 a.m. - 12:30 p.m.  This 4-hour core class is needed in order to take the next two-day seminar. This class is approved for CE elective credit with the North Carolina Real Estate Commission. Registration is $50. Download a registration form.

Inside and Outside: Environmental Issues and Real Estate
Oct. 11-12, 2007 from 8:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m.  Topics include indoor and outdoor air, land conservancy, soil erosion, water issues, septic issues, lead, asbestos and radon, pest control, green building and renovation, energy efficiency, and many others. Instructors: Experts from various NC organizations and companies specializing in environmental concerns. Registration is $200. Download a registration form.

TOTAL core credits for both courses: 20 Hours

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
Hi janeAnne,  I have not found a solid answer on if EPA oversees it or not.  It discusses how it is political and they will fund it if the EPA feels as though they can get recuperate money and if not then it will have to be privately funded.  The information drops off from there and is extremely vague.  :(
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
WOW, another amazing thought.  METH Labs as due diligence?  Is that something that we can disclose?  Can that somehow in the Courts 'Sick Twisted Mind' get turned into Steering? 
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
janeAnne,  How often do the core classes come around?
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Steph~

A couple/three times a year...Hope y'all can come...would love to have dinner. You will love the instructors!

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
METH Labs .... part of the core training and as I recall, either is , or soon may be considered a material fact...
Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Do they share how in the world we are supposed to know about where they are? 

And, what are the effects of Meth Labs to neighboring homes?

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
OH, and are we going to find out when a "particular odor"  is considered a material fact?  ;-)
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

I love the Manure Scratch & Sniff!  I want some!  Even if I'm in Texas!  The brochure appears similar in intent to Practical Tips For Living In A Country Community (which I'm having printed and distributing, per the permissions on the bottom back page). 

I think I'll print out the Manure Scratch & Sniff one and take it to our city council and suggest we do one, as well, since we're being inundated by people moving to the country.  Along with literature from Dark Sky for those folks who move to the country and are afraid of the dark.

Landfill was my first thought about the property in question, by the way, simply because I've lived in the country long enough to know that there were personal landfills on most properties way back when.  Didn't think about a huge one nearby, though.  Bummer.

 

Posted by Tricia Jumonville, Texas REALTOR , Agent With Horse Sense (Bradfield Properties) about 11 years ago

...Stephanie asked...

"...even if the EPA does not fund it, do they somehow oversee the process?..."THAT is a mighty fine question. ...I see this has been a great and challenging question...SO...I contacted my resource...who spends his time working in the brownfields cleanup department (not at the local department store)... 

Here is a reply from an expert"..." ...you simply don't ask simple questions. EPA's participation varies by which program is supervising the cleaning up of the property. That is determined by who, when and why the site became contaminated. Several examples:

If site had a hazardous wastemanagement permit, the state would generally if EPA gave them authority to manage RCRA programs. If the site is in superfund, its all EPA." 

My resource also told me that he is involved in a  superfund cleanup .."Since it also includes dredging material out of the river, " he explained, "the state also has jurisdiction. Because the State has authority over the river, where the contaminated land portion was EPAs.'

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago
Well, that makes sense.  Thanks for clearing it up and getting with your contact.  :)  Just goes to show that it is not an easy topic and it is good to have someone to go to as an expert. 
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Carole~ 

In terms of cost for reclaiming brownfields, once a site has been identified by a Phase II ..and this is just what I surmise...the costs might be substantially less for the land than if a site were not identified......and so possibly might balance out for a developer ...

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Tricia~

You brought up an interesting point...personal landfills ...I had thought of straight-piping into streams...but had not thought of the garbage heaps that folks collected/burned/dumped out on the back forty.

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

Diane~

Thanks for your contribution to our list for due diligence where properties border water...you added"water; source, quantity, quality, depth of aquifers.."

Posted by . 4Terra Land Brokers .. 828-776-0779 Asheville NC, What's Most Important to YOU? Call(828)-776-0779 ( REAL ESTATE RESOURCES & NETWORK ) about 11 years ago

janeAnne,

Have a good time on your journey and take lots of GREEN photos for us.  :)

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
Don't forget the sewer treatment plant and 2 Jails (prisons) are also on the way there.  Oh yeah, Mr. Buyer if you see some guys in orange jump suits don't invite them in for tea. Buncombe county land fill uses inmate labour during the week.
Posted by Jeff Link, "Your Asheville Real Estate Link" about 11 years ago
Great blog! So many sites have been contaminated because regulations did not exist and people never thought enough to care about out planet! I know of large contaminated areas that will never be built upon! It is sad, what we have done to our earth.
Posted by Barbara-Jo Roberts Berberi, MA, PSA, TRC - Greater Clearwater Florida Residential Real Estate Professional, Palm Harbor, Dunedin, Clearwater, Safety Harbor (Charles Rutenberg Realty) about 11 years ago

janeAnne,  Our new Seller's Disclosure was just released and Meth Labs are on there.  :)  I wonder if guilty persons would really disclose that.

My next question about this would be regarding foreclosures.  They still don't have to disclose obviously. 

Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

janeAnne, My computer was down when you posted this so I missed all the fun, but I caught myself up by reading all the comments.

Whenever I sell a business where pollution is a real possibility (auto care related, dry cleaner, light manufacturing) I recommend that the buyer get phase 1 & 2 environmental reports. This can cost approximately $3,000.00 but it definitely worth the cost. The buyer can either walk away or negotiate a clean-up or price reduction. This doesn't necessarily have to involve a land purchase. A lessee can "inherit" liability for pollution.

Bill Roberts

Posted by Bill Roberts, "Baby Boomer" Retirement Planner (Brooks and Dunphy Real Estate) about 11 years ago
Bill - good information. There's that third party verification again!
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago
Bill - good information. There's that third party verification again!
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago
we MISSSSS YOU JaneAnne, hope to see you soon!
Posted by Janie Coffey, Uniting Extraordinary Homes w/ Extraordinary Lives (First Coast Sotheby’s International Realty) about 11 years ago
Ditto. :)
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago

Personally, I hoping for some great pictures and stories from Ireland. Think she'll share?

Posted by Dena Stevens, Putting The Real Into Realtor Since 2004 (Rocky Mountain Realty ) about 11 years ago
I would bet my paycheck that she'll take us through another educational teaser! What do you think she is cooking up?
Posted by Mary McGraw, 2015: Solar Energy Is Still A Simple Machine! (GLREA) about 11 years ago
Mary,  LOL!  :)  Sounds like fun!
Posted by Stephanie Edwards-Musa, knitwit at thred UP (thredUP.com) about 11 years ago
Yep, she's probably watching this conversation cook'n something up.
Posted by Dena Stevens, Putting The Real Into Realtor Since 2004 (Rocky Mountain Realty ) about 11 years ago

WOW --114 comments!!! 

You really do write a great post janeAnne (not that you don't already know that)!

Posted by Rhodes Waite about 10 years ago

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